Sep 28, 2005, 08:19 PM // 20:19
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#1
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Quebec
Profession: Me/E
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The Fast Casting Water Elementalist
Well, at first I did not want to share my build, because I particularly enjoy the surprise it gives many people. But with the reaction some guild group had in the tombs, yesterday, when I offered my help as a water ele ("Who uses water ele?!?"; they took me in anyways, and we lost, but I can assure that I more than did my job).
What is particularly great with this build is that it's both versatile and focused, as the skills usually have 2 effects.
Without further ado, here is the build:
Me/E with 11 fast casting, 12 water, 8 inspiration (you could remove the inspiration, it's skill in the toolbar and add it back to fast casting if you don't believe you'll need some anti-ranger help)
Skills:
Ice Prison
Water Trident (Elite)
Spirit Shackles
Ice Spikes
Deep Freeze
Maelström
Mist Armor
Ressurection Signet
The general concept of the build is quite simple; you are able to hold your own against most every kind of character, but you are still skilled enough at snaring that you can give some very specific help.
Ice Prison is a very useful skill against warriors. A warrior slowed with this is a screwed warrior. Being a mesmer, I get a lot hate from warriors. When they realise what I'm doing to them, they hate me even more. If you can snare a warrior with Ice Prison, all you have to do is to run until he's at the limit of your range, then throw a Water Trident at him. It takes a few shots of this to discourage the more intelligent warriors. The beauty of this is that when he gives up his chase and turn around to get back to his group, you still have a few easy Water Trident shots at him. This is not a very damaging way to play this build, but it's an easy way to be worth the slot you're taking. When you find out that most of your enemies are not vulnerable the water ele, you can always lure a warrior away like that.
Water Trident by itself is a great skill, and is simply amazing when coupled with snares. It is also one of the most powerful single target spammables, so you can kill a weak armored elementalist, necro or mesmer with it if they're busy hitting someone else. Certainly beats wanding (unless you take conjure frost, which is not all that bad to kill mesmers that expect you to be useless while backfired). The 1 second recast timer might limit you at first, but is not that much of an obstacle as it prevents you to waste all your mana spamming it. You might also want to be careful as Water Trident often miss if the target is far away, un-snared and walking either in zig-zags or in a line perpendicular to you.
Spirit Shackles, now that one is not all that necessary. I took it because I found out that my char was very, very, very vulnerable to bow rangers. Spirit Shackles will not kill the ranger, or even keep you alive longer against it. But it ensures that your life will have at least drained his mana. A good spell to repace this if you don't want it is Blurred Vision.
Ice Spikes is not that great of a spell by itself; the snare is of a shorter duration than Deep Freeze and Ice Prison. This, however, is worth pure gold when you need to save your monk's butt. Imagine your monk (or elementalist or mesmer or whatever soft target) is being pounded on by 3 angry warriors. He need a quick escape. Simply running away is not a good solution for the monk if any of them has sprint (and you should always assume he has), and even if they don't, it just postpones the inevitable. Just call Ice Spikes (Ctrl before the cast) on one of the warrior and your monk will have a smooth getway. Make sure he knows that you calling this is his cue to start running. With Fast Casting, it's almost an instant cast. The damage is quite good, and it doesn't have to be in sight to be cast, so it's also a good way finisher to kill a runner.
Deep Freeze's advantages are not too obvious on first sight. It's very expensive, it has a quite long casting time and recast timer and its effect don't seem all that better than Ice Shards. Sure, the snare acts longer, the damage is slightly higher, but, hey, does that justify 10 more mana to cast? Absolutely! The real use of Deep Freeze is in the start of the game. Many groups stop to consider their enemy before jumping in the fight. That's the time you should cast Deep Freeze on them. The area of Deep Freeze is quite large, so there are good chances you will manage to slow over 3-4 person for 10 seconds. Usually these will be the characters that were designed to be in front of the melee; warriors. If you slow these warriors down to a crawl, it means easy access for the rest of your group to the juicy targets behind.
Maelström is simply the god of all skills. It could have the double casting cost and still be worth every energy point. It's much, much more low key than other DoT AoEs (only a small and subtle blue circle on the ground announces it). The damage is not quite as good as some other AoEs, but the effect, OH, the effect! It can take some time for a caster to realise he's not getting anything through, and even more time to realise he must move. There are two ways for you to manage your Maelström. Fire-and-forget, and pin-down. Fire-and-forget is quite obvious, and even more efficient when someone on your team is already hitting the target. Pinning down with Maelström is my favorite way of dropping a monk. You start with a Ice Prison which the monk will probably not bother to remove. If the monk is moving drop him with a Water Trident. Either way, throw a Maelström as fast as possible. From here, you simply have to pummel the target with Water Trident as soon as it's recastable so the target cannot move away from the AoE. Voilà; Monk-sicle. The damage from Maelström and Water Tridents combined should be enough to drop a monk, but just to be sure, I always call it when I cast Maelström, so my team knows that monk is defenseless.
Mist Armor is a strange skill. Quite to the opposite of what the name says, it's not that good for armor. It's, however, killer for a quick getaway. Some warriors will try to offset the snares with running skills. If they start that kind of things, just pop in a Mist Armor and outrun them (then turn around and Water Trident them; they'll love you). It's also the best way to catch a runner (cast Mist Armor, run in cast range, throw a Ice Prison and watch as your angry team beats down on the poor sod).
And Ressurection Signet, which is quite obvious. The reason you really need it with this build is that many teams will no longer see you as a priority when they see you casting water spells, with the fact that you could be far from the rest of the fight when you drag a warrior along, and with the great ability to run away Mist Armor can bestow you. It's quite frequent to be the last (or second to last) player alive on your team, so Ressurection Signet can simply save your group.
All in all, this build has proven to be very efficient in both PvP and PvE. It is counterable and shutdownable, but a little less than many other casters. After the initial contact, you often have to use your mana as soon as you get it, meaning that energy drains are less of a drama (you just stole 3 energy, omg!). The spammable Water Trident gives quite a bit of damage, and enables the water elementalist to drop a target by himself. The AoEs are situational boons that are not wasted either when used on one target.
So if you have any comments or ideas for my build, just tell me. I do hope I will see more Water Elementalists in game, as we are much, much more useful than we get credit for. Just don't steal my build ;D
Last edited by Guizzy; Sep 28, 2005 at 09:16 PM // 21:16..
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Sep 28, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03
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#2
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Boston, heart in Newcastle
Guild: Guilds are silly
Profession: N/Mo
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I just started a Me/E myself. This is very helpful. Thanks.
I'd use some kinda energy stealing skill though. Spirit of failure instead of shackles, energy tap even since trident is your elite. I'd sub in ice spikes too for aoe. Its only a 5 sec longer recharge, 5 extra energy though but with some energy leech you should be fine.
Sounds like fun, drop 2 slow hexes and maelstrom the crap out of the monk.
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Sep 28, 2005, 09:25 PM // 21:25
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#3
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Quebec
Profession: Me/E
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Energy tap would be a good idea; I think I'll try that tonight. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Oh, I already use Ice Spikes (thought it was Ice Shards, but I just checked and you're right; changed it in the original post).
Also, dropping 2 slow hexes is unfortunately a waste, because their effect do not stack. Would be awesome if they did: (66% of 66% of his normal speed 8D) Water Trident is usually enough to keep it inside the AoE for quite a bit. Often, a monk gets out before dying, but then he'll have to waste so much time healing himself that his teammates will not be able to count on recieving crucial heals.
Also; Maelstrom on PvP Priest NPCs is simply awesome. You can drop the Priest *alone* in 10 seconds if you keep casting damage the whole time.
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Sep 28, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54
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#4
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Jungle Guide
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energy management?
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Sep 28, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06
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#5
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Quebec
Profession: Me/E
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As I said; Water Trident can still be spammed if you are drained; you have the time to recharge the mana, thanks to the 1 sec recast timer (that can also be often overcome thanks to my fabulous Flint's Wand/Flint's Artefact). And gimpysonofgroin's idea of using energy tap in the stead of Spirit Shackles is a nice energy management.
Also, the costly spells are usually tide turners when adequately used; they can single-handedly turn a game around. You do not simply cast them on any opportunity.
A fast casting water elementalist can be a dead weight for some time because the right conditions to shine are not occuring (and if they never seem to occur, you can simply take a warrior for a walk; a 1-1 player slot trade with the enemy team is still adequate). In these cases, just wand / water elementalist.
Last edited by Guizzy; Sep 28, 2005 at 10:10 PM // 22:10..
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Sep 28, 2005, 10:08 PM // 22:08
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#6
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne, Florida.
Guild: [HTR]
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You can always go Elemental+Water attunement and spam Ice Spear.
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Sep 28, 2005, 10:14 PM // 22:14
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#7
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Alberta, Canada
Guild: Servants of Fortuna
Profession: N/Me
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Agree with audioaxes - what do you do for energy?
Wouldn't want to go ele primary for energy storage as then you're stuck with 2+ sec cast times (excluding trident)
8 points in inspiration seems wasted if all its being used for is spirit shackles. Rather than energy tap (slow cast time and marginal energy gain at 8 insp) I think power drain might work better.
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Sep 28, 2005, 10:19 PM // 22:19
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#8
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Aug 2005
Guild: Xen of Onslaught Ladder [XoO]
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I'm with cookiehoarder, I'd most certainly go ele primary for energy management...I don't really understand how fast casting helps you much here.
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Sep 28, 2005, 10:36 PM // 22:36
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#9
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Alberta, Canada
Guild: Servants of Fortuna
Profession: N/Me
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With the metagame featuring all those interrupt rangers right now I'd hate to be trying to cast spells with 2 sec cast times, nevermind the 4 seconds it'll take you to get maelstrom down.
So you've got:
1) Mes/ele with faster cast times but energy management could be a problem
2) Ele/mes with no energy issues but very susceptible to interrupts
So long as you're able to manage the energy I can see how it'd work, but if you're in need of one of those big spells "to turn the tide" and are stuck with only 5-10 energy what do you do?
I'll give it a whirl this weekend with power drain rather than energy tap and see how it goes as I've always been interested in the water branch of ele skills but never really tried it.
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Sep 28, 2005, 11:21 PM // 23:21
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#10
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2005
Guild: Quite Vulgar [FUN]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigernz
With the metagame featuring all those interrupt rangers right now I'd hate to be trying to cast spells with 2 sec cast times, nevermind the 4 seconds it'll take you to get maelstrom down.
So you've got:
1) Mes/ele with faster cast times but energy management could be a problem
2) Ele/mes with no energy issues but very susceptible to interrupts
So long as you're able to manage the energy I can see how it'd work, but if you're in need of one of those big spells "to turn the tide" and are stuck with only 5-10 energy what do you do?
I'll give it a whirl this weekend with power drain rather than energy tap and see how it goes as I've always been interested in the water branch of ele skills but never really tried it.
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doesn't matter what caster class you are they will all run into problems with rangers. only way to stop them in drain their mana. he has the right idea with spirit shackles.
i love my water ele as well such a fun build. people underestimate the effects of water b/c it doesn't pop up on your screen as numbers. i'd replace deep freeze with shard storm. for 20 energy you can slow for a longer duration. if you want aoe slowing use ice spikes.
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Sep 29, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49
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#11
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Quebec
Profession: Me/E
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For energy management, I really don't need it all that much. It's not like I run around casting maelströms at everything in sight. If I need some more mana, I simply wand for a while (and it can be useful, if you choose your target right. Hit a soft target that no one else is attacking. This will force their monks to heal that one too. A little wanding will not do the difference on a target everyone hits because the healing will simply over-heal what you just did. If you force them to split their healing, they will waste ressources). Also, Water Trident does not drain my mana thanks to the recast timer.
I haven't put much thought into energy management because I don't need to. It's never been a problem before. When there is a situation that would require a snare; Water Trident can usually also do the job (just tell your monk to start running and not to stop and trip the warrior over with a WT). When a situation requires a Maelström, well, it's usually because the target is a monk. You do not cast a Maelström to interrupt a specific spell, it's more of a shutdown than an interrupt. Shutdowns are much less time-critical, so it can usually wait. If the situation makes it so that you can't be as useful trying to shutdown, you can always take a warrior out of the melee.
Fast cast helps a lot when you need to have warrior follow you; if you have to wait the full casting time each time you use Water Trident, the warrior would have a free shot a you each time (and a free shot from an angry warrior is much more damaging than a single Water Trident; without counting that they could knockdown / cripple / bleed you). When you need to resnare them, you don't want to have to wait for the spell to come up. Already with my char they DO have a free shot at me each time I need to re-snare; I wouldn't be able to carry them out of the fight if they could land more shots than that. Also, you need to time Water Trident right if you want it to have its full effect, and Fast Cast helps with that. As I said; energy management have never been much of a problem, so I'd take these advantages over E. Management any day.
That said; I'm certain there's also a kickass build to be made with Energy Management!
And I've tried Energy Tap, and no, it's not as useful as it sound unless I respecced more Fast Casting into Inspiration, which would in counterpart be less efficient than simply being a E/Me with Energy Management. I prefer Spirit Shackles because even if I still get killed by a ranger, it'll have cost him much more energy doing so. There very well might be better skills to put there, but I've yet to find 'em, so any other suggestion would be appreciated.
Also; I'll try Ice Storm as a replacement of Deep Freeze (never was in love with it). But what I fear is that many teams will fail to notice the difference I make unless I slow their whole group with Deep Freeze. Also, the area of Ice Spikes is much smaller (about 3 characters wide) than Deep Freeze.
It's frustrating; many teams fail to see the difference a Water Ele makes because it's more subtle. They get the feeling that because they were hitting a Maelströmed monk, it's "their" kill. I had the same problem when I was playing my primary (mesmer). Oh well, that usually weeds out the bad groups. Problem is that as soon as something goes wrong, in a group (even the good ones), every starts to blame it on the Water Elementalist; just because they have no idea what he has been doing during the fight. I mean; enemy life goes down, warriors have trouble getting to their targets, monks are brutally killed while helpless, but nooooo, that cannot be the Water Ele! Must be the tooth fairy! I mean; I've honestly tried most every class, and I know what they do. Most people haven't tried a water ele seriously, so it's natural they don't know how it works.
Last edited by Guizzy; Sep 29, 2005 at 02:36 AM // 02:36..
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Sep 29, 2005, 03:05 AM // 03:05
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#12
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Academy Page
Join Date: Sep 2005
Profession: R/E
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ive been interested in water ele lately, mostly because few people play or talk about them or water builds, im going to give this build a go and good for you! playing water, one of the few unused atrributes in the game.
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Sep 29, 2005, 03:42 AM // 03:42
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#13
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Guild: [GSS][SoF][DIII]
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To me water trident has always just been a glorified flare. In general water eles should use ward vs harm. I dont understand inspiration for just spirit shakles, if I were you I would take out Ice Prison and Armor of Mist for more insp spells... Ice Spikes, Deep Freeze, and Res Sig are good. Maelstrom is pretty much your allstar spell there.
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Sep 29, 2005, 03:44 AM // 03:44
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#14
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Sep 2005
Guild: Sand Scorpions[SS]
Profession: R/Me
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I tried a Fast casting Water Me/E. I just used Water attunement and I was fine energy wise. If it gets really bad then use Ele attunement as your elite. You will be forced to be all support if you do though.
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Sep 29, 2005, 03:50 AM // 03:50
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#15
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Profession: Me/Mo
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Since you already have some points in inspiration, would it be suitible to use a mantra (Mantra Of resolve comes to mind.) ?
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Sep 29, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58
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#16
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: ::::
Guild: ::::::::
Profession: W/Mo
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ok, speaking of water ele, ive been playing with the water ele because i love maelstrom too, anyway i was gearing towards anti-ranger, so i figure Mist Form is the solution, yes it ignores any attacks from warriors, and rangers, but for some strange reason, the rangers interrupts skills get through mist forms magic and i get interrupted ;( boohoo.
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Sep 29, 2005, 04:02 AM // 04:02
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#17
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Beta Tester
Join Date: Jan 2005
Guild: Carebear Club
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
To me water trident has always just been a glorified flare.
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Whoa! Trident is by far one of the best tactical skill in the game. 5e no exhaustion knowdown, with solid damge. Only reason it doesn't see a lot more play is that it's buried in Water. If it was in Earth, people would be all over it. The amount of control it can give you over the battlefield is frightening. WaH is great if you're running a healing ball holding the Alter, but everywhere else, where mobility matters, Trident really shines. Plus it's essentially an auto-win button on relic maps
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Sep 29, 2005, 04:19 AM // 04:19
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#18
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Sep 2005
Guild: Sand Scorpions[SS]
Profession: R/Me
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Yea Water Trident owns on Relic runs. If my W/E didn't use Devastating Hammer as an elite I could always bring that since all of my targets always run =/
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Sep 29, 2005, 04:27 AM // 04:27
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#19
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Quebec
Profession: Me/E
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Ward against Harm has never been very useful to me, but your mileage may vary. For Inspiration, I've put these points back into Fast Cast and switched S-S for Blurred Vision. Also, switching Deep Freeze for Ice Storm made a huge difference energy-wise. The reason I pack Water Trident, Ice Armor and Mist Armor is that they own a warrior. Snare then Water Trident is the best way to keep them down. They are also used to keep enemy players inside the Mael. Keep in mind my build is hybrid PvE / PvP.
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Sep 29, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25
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#20
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: May 2005
Profession: Me/
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Gratz on the fantastic build! I do have one question though. In my PvE experiences, I've never found it useful to have more than a single snare. Why do you find snares so useful in PvE?
But it looks like an excellent PvP build. I'm going to have to try it out!
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